|
Post by Darryl James on Jul 2, 2006 17:55:07 GMT -5
In my recent piece on Radical Feminism, some people thought I was speaking of all feminism, or even the entire women's rights movement. I'd like to know if people actually know what Radical Feminism is.
|
|
|
Post by thuso on Jul 2, 2006 19:07:36 GMT -5
I really didn't know what the formal definition was until today. I now know more about "radical feminism" than I want to know. Somehow, I don't think the leaders of this movement have a great influence in the issues of African American men and women. I think our issues are born out of our collective oppression as opposed to an ideological position among African American women seeking to oppose "patriarchy."
|
|
|
Post by lavalady on Jul 2, 2006 21:50:17 GMT -5
Thuso is right. It is really not prevalent in the African-American female community.
|
|
|
Post by Darryl James on Jul 3, 2006 11:14:46 GMT -5
Thuso, I hear you when you say that Radical Feminism doesn’t have a great influence on the issues of African American men and women, but that isn’t really the case. In our community, we are beginning to toss bombs at each other, blaming each other for things that quite frankly, just aren’t a part of our community. But when you take a close look at Radical Feminism, which was covert in it’s influence, you begin to make connections.
For example, we keep hearing how Black men are violent and beating their women. Really, if we take a look at our past, we will find incidents of Black women burning, stabbing and killing their men, right along with the violence men have perpetrated against them. Today, while people talk nonsense about domestic violence, Black domestic violence against women has decreased, while domestic violence against Black men has increased. My point is that Black men as a group have not been specifically violent against their women as a group—individuals have problems and the events of violence come from both sides.
Radical Feminism’s influence has taught many of us—men and women—that men as a group have been violent and oppressive. When we mention violent acts by women against men, police hesitate to arrest, the courts hesitate to prosecute and a great deal of the media refuse to discuss it.
You can say that you don’t see it, and that’s fair. But don’t say it doesn’t exist, because I have seen it. I’ve been doing research and surveys across the nation for more than ten years.
And, if you begin to talk to Black women across the nation as I have been doing, you will hear many of them promoting propaganda designed to oppose patriarchy. I can share emails and website postings where Black women are actually claiming that Black men are benefiting along with white men from being men, and using that "power" to oppress Black women.
Yes, it exists in our community.
|
|
|
Post by carlhb on Jul 3, 2006 15:45:12 GMT -5
I am "old school" male--68 years old and I must confess that I didn't really know what radical feminism was until this offering. I had seen it but didn't know what to call it. It has affected me from the standpoint of how it has affected the wonderful woman I love and have been married to for 47 years. I think it has caused much confusion in women of my era in that they have bought into many of its tenants and therefore feel that they are compelled to disagree with their mates on many topics and issues; to note, blaming the husband for failings or shortcomings of their sons; thinking in terms of "me" and "you" instead of "we" and "us." My wife last worked at a job for 4-5 years while I was in studies for my undergraduat and graduate degrees. She has been a mother and homemaker since that time and I have been the provider. This is a role I have accepted wholeheartedly for it was the traditional role of men from my era and it was what I wanted to do since someone had to oversee the proper guidance of our children. My wife had to forsake her later aspirations (beyond Nursing) because of the duties of wife, homemaker and mother. she is a very intelligent, introspective woman who has made tremendous contributions to the communities in which we've lived. Their have been numerous times that she has intimated that she would have liked to have compled her education. So, as you gather from what I have been trying to say, radical feminism has affected us all in one form or another.
Carlhb
|
|
spring85sigma
Junior Member
A.W. Harris Jr., MA, MS, NCC
Posts: 4
|
Post by spring85sigma on Jul 10, 2006 0:37:30 GMT -5
As an academic, I have seen "radical feminism" in full bloom on university campuses. At Syracuse, for example, where I am completing my doctoral studies I had intended to complete a cognate in Sociology, so that upon graduation, I would be eligible for a duel appointment in a Sociology Department. The only course that I enrolled in turned carried the title, "Class, Race, and Gender." The professor, an African American woman, was a University of Chicago Ph.D. My expectation was that the course would provide a thorough overview of theoretical and empircal treatments of class, race, and gender from a sociological perspective. Instead, I was introduced to the concept of "intersectionality". Simply stated, this is the concept of how class, race, and gender "intersect" to produce more or less "oppressive" conditions for people in the "out groups" in society. The reading list for the course contained no empirical research studies to demonstrate the constructs, or dare I say, philosophy, presented in class. It was heavy on Audre Lourde, Patricia Hill, bell hooks, etc. While these women write eloquently and in some cases convincingly about the plight of blacks and women in society, most of their pieces were anti-male. I dropped the course after a lecture which purported to demonstrate that the black male systematically oppressed black women and how, in particular, this oppression could be seen in the Civil Rights Movement! Having been raised by a very strong single mother, my maternal grandmother and grandfather, and an extended family of uncles and aunties, her examples appeared to be rather poorly conceived and frankly wrong. I pointed out that the Women's Movement was patterned after the Civil Rights Movement and that indeed the brand of feminism (radical) that she was espousing in the course really provided a poor fit as a theoretical construct to analyze the Civil Rights Movement. Furthermore, I suggested that, in recent times, the black male has come under fire and has suffered from "oppression". Much to her chagrin, I also pointed out the nature of the enrollment in her class (Five white women, 5 black women, two white men, and one black male). It is my belief that those who espouse feminism that degrades and belittles men find their audience with those women whose experiences with men have been negative. It simply "confirms" what many women "know" about men. It also, however, serves to rob some women of the process of introspection and reflection by perpetuating a "victim mentality" in some women. When one asks a woman who is clearly involved with a "bad" man, to look at her role or responsibility in a poor relationship. It is often said that we are blaming the victim.
Please NOTE that I write this knowing that there are clearly BAD and abusive men out there. My father was and remains one of them. I have taken the time to write this post to say that we must be "critical thinkers" about the ideologies that we embrace.
Finally, feminist theory and scholarship is currently in a state of flux. There are many thoughtful feminist theorists, authors, and scholars who believe that radical feminism has "overstepped" its boundaries and has alienated, not only men who might have been sympathetic to the women's movement, but also the most recent generations of college-educated women. An early pioneer in this movement is Camille Paglia, whose critique of feminism has been so thorough, that she is seen as persona non grata in many academic circles. More recently, Christine Hoff Sommers has taken on many of her more radical sisters in her book "The War Against Boys". She shows from statistics and empirical studies that many of the claims by radical feminists against men have no basis in statistics or reality (e.g. the "epidemic of violence against women", "the achievement gap between boys and girls", and the "self-esteem" movement).
As one of my fomer professors says, "Read EVERYTHING CRITICALLY! Question everything. Check out all claims. Ask yourself 'What is the author's agenda?' Every writer, researcher, scholar has one!"
Just my humble opinion.
|
|
|
Post by robxb on Jul 20, 2007 15:44:52 GMT -5
Radical Feminism has led to the following:
-White men feeling powerless and dating more Asian women because they value their femininity and domestic role in the family structure. -Black men dating more outside their race for the same reasons. -Hispanic men not dating outside their race because these women have strong values towards supporting their men....even when they know they will not be millionaires and can still support them even if the men sell fruit on the streets. -Black women making false claims because of coined phases they've heard like a man being "verbally abusive". -Marriages where men feel powerless to put their foot down on a stance because the women can abuse him by non support, put downs and the knowledge that if there was a fight she can easily call the police and they will tell the man to leave in most cases.
Women must have their rights but not at the expense of a strong family. Their ideology and attacks are ruining relationships and are at the roots to many of our divorces! That along with a myriad of issues a Black man has to address...I now fully understand how a brotha can just jump up an leave. I think its being immature and selfish but I think self preservation of ones sense of manhood and life comes into play when these actions occur.
Its sad but the solution is to communicate with these sistas to let them know that you both are a TEAM and the expert in that area should have overriding vote. I.E. The husband is a CPA. The wife is a Attorney...Husband pays bill on time; prioritizes all bills; Wife does not prioritize bills and just spends based on wants...if they can both agree on whose the expert, then the husband should set the family rules for money management.
If this keeps up, America will be in a huge mess.
|
|
|
Post by Darryl James on Jul 20, 2007 17:23:54 GMT -5
Rob, America is already in a huge mess. We are just beginning to see the fallout from it. That's why marriage is on the decline and it hits us harder--there are more Black women over 35 and unmarried than ever before. In many ways, our relationships are in worse condition than during slavery. At least thn we were making every effort to be together. Now, we have to hear about how "strong" women are either too "strong" for men to handle or how some of them don't need a man. The good news is that it's a self-correcting system. Younger women are seeing the results of being "independent women" and they want something different. Younger men now need to be trained so that they know what to accept and what to deliver.
|
|
|
Post by michaelfisher on Jul 24, 2007 0:19:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by pollyhustlez on Sept 20, 2008 20:26:12 GMT -5
Well, I believe as long as we keep excluding GOD Almighty from our lives, we will always see a decline! We want to keep asking the same questions "why is this going wrong?" and "Why does this not work?" Marriage is pupose to be a three-way union! GOD, man and woman....a spiritual bond that when you take GOD out of it, it is bound to fail...woman feel they no longer need men, because men feel they no longer need GOD! its a trickle down effect. Yet men get so offended when they hear woman say those types of things...so you can imagine how GOD feels. You can study these matters until you get a hole in your head! You can get a PHD, QHD, a WXYZHD!! You have to bring it back to the CREATOR! and for those who just dont believe, you better figure it out quick because the time is at hand!
|
|
|
Post by Darryl James on Sept 20, 2008 21:30:33 GMT -5
Polly, I don’t really have a problem with you pushing your version of God and marriage, but you sound one-sided and a little nutty when you lay it all at the feet of men. Are you seriously trying to get anyone to believe that women are still on point and things only fell off because men left God? Please, the whole nation is on some bullshyt and women lead the charge with their fake women’s rights movement, which was a movement away from everything that previously made sense. You can bring God into it if you want, but with real data, we can look at changes in society and that falls at the feet of women and men.
|
|
|
Post by pollyhustlez on Sept 22, 2008 0:44:08 GMT -5
Well Darryl, See, that is the problem. Men do not want to own up to their responsibility and that has been going on from the beginning of time. When GOD told Adam not to eat the apple but he ate cause Eve suggested he do so... But, GOD told him not to do it! It has not changed since..(Im sure its sounds nutty) especially to men who dont know their place and there role! See, its always easier to blame women and pass the buck. Its easier to say well, women do it too! But regardless you have a responsibility stay focused and do what you are supposed to do. When a women has to step up and do a man's job of cause eventually she will stand up and start yelling equal rights, radical feminism and anything else to the top of her lungs and she should! The women was meant to be the support system, the backbone not the man! She is suppose to submit to her husband, but no woman want or cant submit to a man who does not understand his role....and most of all does not submit himself to the will of GOD! He's out of order.
|
|
|
Post by Darryl James on Sept 25, 2008 8:28:38 GMT -5
Polly, I need you to go ahead and give it a rest. The whole argument rests on your inane view of a biblical tale. It’s tired and I’m just not interested in hosting it here. You’ve said your piece on a number of threads about what you think is God’s perception and used that to blame everything on men. Okay, now let it go, because it sounds real nutty. Even based on what you present women are just as out of order as men, if not more. Stop now.
|
|