Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 301 Karma: 10
The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Thread Started on Jun 9, 2006, 12:20pm »
Why Radical Feminism Is Failing
By Darryl James
For many, feminism only refers to the goal of equal pay for equal work. Others who are closer to it realize that it means much more, including being treated as equals to men and being given equal access.
However, there are other goals of the radical feminist also known as a "Feminatzi."
First, let me clear. I love Black women. I have strong relationships with the women in my family and with my female friends. I refuse to date outside of the race because I am committed to Black women.
Yet, Feminatzis are quick to claim that I hate women because I don’t agree with everything that feminism teaches. These ignorant women hurl these labels at me even though they have never met me and know little about me.
There is nearly no understanding across the gender lines when the woman is a radical feminist and the man is aware of himself and the world around him.
For the radical feminist, there can never be any blame for the woman—it is always about sexism, without a care for what happens to men or how men actually feel. Attempts to offer clarity garner accusations of blaming the victim.
The radical feminist doesn't want to hear anything that detracts from her anti-man/pro-woman propaganda, but the reality is that women can be pro-woman without being anti-man.
For the radical feminist, things have gotten so bad between the genders simply because men are no good. However, unless men agree that we are doing worse things to women than ever before, the radical feminists will have to explain how we got to the point where the good men are now hard to find and they are now afraid of strong women.
Radical feminism is failing because it is dogmatic.
There is no negotiating with a radical feminist, because if you disagree with her, you are labeled a misogynist.
Radical feminists are ostensibly more concerned with their agenda than the state of the men in their lives, including their sons and brothers. How else can we explain why more women are excelling, more men are falling behind, while there are more single women raising both boys and girls?
Before radical feminism was popular, single mothers were raising sons and daughters and the boys weren’t falling behind.
Of course, there are other reasons why boys are falling behind, but radical feminists want to lay blame solely on the fathers they claim are not in "most" homes.
If radical feminists weren’t promulgating a strict pro-woman/anti-man agenda, it would be easier to have a discussion about how something perceived as empowering to women, can also be perceived as damaging to men.
Take one of the most popular films embraced by women—The Color Purple, for example. This movie carries messages of empowerment for Black women, even though the negative male images are destructive.
Take also the Madea series—Black women came out in throngs to attack me for raging against a movie they found empowering, ignoring the potential damage done to the Black male image.
When the reverse occurs and men ignore the potential damage to Black women, cries of sexism resound loudly.
Radical feminism is also failing because it promulgated some outright lies. If the truth is presented, it will cause some radical feminists to go crazy and attack the messenger.
When I presented research to demonstrate that women weren’t as bad off in the workplace as is thought popularly, I was attacked, but not with research to the contrary, only with pure emotion, anger and stupidity.
That anger and stupidity will also be reflected in the weak little men who have been apologizing to women, sometimes without even knowing why.
But who apologizes to the Black man for sexism? That would be no one.
And therein lies perhaps the most salient reason why radical feminism fails—There has been no buy-in with strong, enlightened men who love women, yet refuse to take all of the blame.
There is no pure buy-in because there is no good result from supporting what is potentially damaging to us.
What does radical feminism offer men? Greater freedom?
Enlightenment? Resolutions? None of these. It points the finger of blame at us with no real solutions except complete capitulation.
The only motivation men are given for accepting radical feminism is the avoidance of being labeled sexist. If we don’t agree, we are told that we hate women, or that we are afraid of strong women.
That program has run its course. It hasn’t worked for strong men and it has caused great rifts in the gender divide.
What radical feminism fails to provide are intrinsic reasons why our quality of life would improve by accepting their propaganda. Quite frankly, the reaction of radical feminists to my writing is always negative, bitchy attacks overwrought with emotion and bullcrap.
I’d like it if at least one radical feminist could approach me--or any other strong man who loves women—with reason, research and a cool head. Nothing else will move anything.
As opposed to a buy-in, all strong men get is "support this or you’re the enemy."
And, sadly, strong men have become the enemy for too many women. Radical feminism failed because it relied heavily on minority women who were busy with their struggles as minority women. Eventually, it seduced some of them into choosing feminism and embracing pure gender identification over their racial identification, causing new intra-racial struggles that it never paid attention to.
Radical feminism should have paid attention to the rest of the world. It would have been easy to see the impending failure. How could it convince all of the men in the world, when it couldn't even convince all of the women?
For every woman who thinks that men are the enemy, there's another woman who thinks that radical feminists are the enemy.
For every woman who says that she can’t find a man who supports her career, there's another woman who seeks a man who will support her (including some women in the first group).
For every woman who says that she doesn't want or need a man, there's another woman who wants and needs a man (including some women who claim to be the former).
For every woman who says that she is okay with not having children because the man will abandon her, there's another woman who would do anything to have children, and there’s yet another woman who has found a man to have children with and remain parenting partners with.
For every woman who thinks that dating problems are the fault of men, there's another woman who realizes that we all have problems.
So, if we take inventory, radical feminists need to understand one thing: You really aren't that strong in numbers. You're just loud.
The result of radical feminists’ myopia is confusion of message and little buy-in with the strong men of the world, as well as, surprisingly, some strong women.
Take a look at Hillary Clinton, for example. We know that she is smarter and has more money than her husband. But we also know that she stepped behind her man and supported him without talk of who is on what "level," and when he was done, she stepped back into her own program. It was about the partnership.
Let’s bring it home to the beautiful and strong Michelle Obama, who is vice-president of community and external affairs for University of Chicago Hospitals, with her Harvard law degree.
She could have fronted on Barack at any time, but she is about her family, which includes the man she loves. Her reply to talk of being a superwoman is simple: "I know I can’t do it alone."
And for a real good look at the confusion of message, witness an "Independent Woman" on a date waiting for the man to pay. What evolution? Who you callin' a feminist?
Let's get it straight: "I'm equal to you, until the bill comes."
Okay. Is the message: "I want equal pay, but unequal treatment in relationships?"
Or maybe this is it: "I demand the right to be viewed in the same light as men, but I refuse to do everything that men do, namely partner with another person who makes less than I do."
So, ladies, let's be real with each other. Real men don't want women to blame them for everything, and you know you don't want those weak, scary little boys who agree with everything you say. We know you don't want them because you either ignore them or dump them quickly, while accusing all of us of being like that.
And, we know you don't want them, because we are tired of hearing you complain to us about them.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Any man who loves the women in his life does not wish to see them oppressed. He just doesn’t want any undue blame.
Figure out what you want. Make a list even. Then, let's sit down and make it happen. Together.
There are some real men left. We just won't allow you to define us or blame us for everything.
And we know that you refuse to be the victim, but guess what?
Darryl James is an award-winning author who is now a filmmaker. He released his first mini-movie, “Crack,” and this year, will release his first full-length documentary. James’ appears in the film “What Black Men Think,” an in-depth view of misrepresentations, myths and stereotypes about Black men. Reach James at djames@theblackgendergap.com
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #1 on Jun 26, 2006, 2:31am »
the women's movement did a really good job of seperating the black woman and black man. at one time it was about a strong black family then our women decided they really didn't need us because they had jobs and became brainwashed into thinking that being a single parent household was "the it thing". it takes a village to raise a child. to quote chris rock, "it takes daddy to keep his daughter off the stripper pole". for the past 20 years, black women have been unrealistic in their bashing of black men. look around and get a clue. a lot of us have bought into the propaganda that we can do better elsewhere but where has that left us as a people. my cousin was looking through jet and commented that seal only married heidi klum because he's got money. my reply to her was that she wouldn't date him because he's "too dark" and has tribal marks on his face. heidi klum is a megamillionaire and he's a borderline rock star. if he's happy, let him be happy.
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #2 on Jul 2, 2006, 3:43pm »
No sweetheart. It is not the women's movement that did a good job of separating black men and women. It is the black man's treatment of black women that did a good job of separating them. Women mostly react to the way in which they have been treated and the way they see brothas treating other women. If black men were savvy enough to selectively CHOOSE a woman who is worthy of their attention and then treat her well, she would treat him well and he wouldn't have anything else to complain about in regards to women. But what actually happens is that most men either let women choose them (rather than the other way around) or they prowl for (sex). And if all you're looking for is a fat a$$, than please brothas don't complain about what you find. If she's got too many issues, don't have sex with her. Y'all brothas often CREATE more problems for yourself.
Don't get me wrong. Some women have plenty of issues. But once y'all learn to show common respect to EVERY woman - whether she deserves it or not, you'll see that you'll be better able to help women understand their own flaws and better prepared to select a good woman who will be good to you and WANT to complement your world.
« Last Edit: Jul 2, 2006, 5:50pm by Darryl James »
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 301 Karma: 10
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #3 on Jul 2, 2006, 5:48pm »
First, lavalady, read the piece again. I did not indict the entire women’s movement nor all women. I was specifically speaking of Radical Feminism and its propaganda. If you don’t know what Radical Feminism is, then say that, but don’t start disagreeing with something you obviously don’t understand.
Second, you are demonstrating my point. Your entire diatribe only discusses how MEN are problematic. Even when you concede that some women have issues, you still point back to men as the source of the problem. Radical Feminism teaches that women would be fine if it weren’t for the hypersexual and brutal ways of stupid men.
The real source of our problems—both men and women—is that we are polarized by blaming propaganda such as what you have displayed.
For example, if in fact the Black man’s treatment of Black women were the real problem, then we would have been separated before Radical Feminism came into the Black community. But in case you didn’t know, our problems have been heightened over the past thirty years—traceable directly to the appearance of Radical Feminism.
You sound like you hate men, or at least have ZERO understanding, when you claim that we are not savvy enough to choose worthy women, or when you claim that "most" men let women choose them or prowl for sex. Do you live in Bizarro world? But really, you don’t seem to understand women either, claiming that women "mostly" react to the way in which men treat them. That’s crazy, because you are basically calling women weak and without direction.
Again, as evidenced by your post, we—both men and women—have to learn to show common respect for each other. We also have to stop judging each other based on what we hear, as opposed to research or actually listening to each other.
It’s unfortunate that you couldn’t understand the piece, but if you read it again after having done some research into Radical Feminism, perhaps it will make sense to you. Or maybe not.
Finally, you may want to refrain from using labels such as "sweetheart." Radical Feminism has taught you that such labels are condescending when they come from men you don’t know—don’t reverse the insults.
« Last Edit: Jul 2, 2006, 6:16pm by Darryl James »
Darryl James is an award-winning author who is now a filmmaker. He released his first mini-movie, “Crack,” and this year, will release his first full-length documentary. James’ appears in the film “What Black Men Think,” an in-depth view of misrepresentations, myths and stereotypes about Black men. Reach James at djames@theblackgendergap.com
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #4 on Jul 2, 2006, 9:46pm »
I was actually responding to Filmzilla's post - not the feminist article. I certainly do not have the impression that you are dogging out the entire women's movement or all women.
You say our problems have been heightened over the past 30 years. I happen to agree with you. However, there are many more factors in this than you seem to realize. I agree that radical feminism has something to do with it. But actually, the entire country has had more problems over the last 30 years. Many of our problems have a lot to do with the fact that it generally takes two incomes to raise a family these days. All of a sudden, it is more of a hustle, just to survive. And of course you know that couples fight over economic issues more than anything else. Another thing that has contributed to the fueding between black men and women is the way that women are talked about in the male dominated rap industry that has taken the world be storm. Never before have so many people found it humorous to refer to women as bitches and hos. Never before has it been so contagious to degrade them and than brag about it. How in the world did black men not expect for black women to become bitter? It's a huge show of disrespect, and I have never heard a black man apologize for it. There are many men who do not like that other black men behave this way, but I rarely hear black men criticize other black men for that. So my point is that radical feminism has been a problem, but radical feminism has stemmed from a "reaction" that women have to many men's widespread and blatent disregard for them.
I stand corrected on the "most" men part of my post (in regards to my statement that most men allow women to choose them). I have no idea if "most" men do this. I only hope that this is not true.
Lastly, underestimating someone's intelligence and trying to lump them in a box is not a good example of showing the "common respect" that you think we should have for each other. I love men, actually. I married to the finest and most wonderful black man on the planet. No bitterness here, Daryl. Just trying to represent for my ladies - because I know many of them agree with my sentiments.
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #5 on Jul 2, 2006, 10:53pm »
I would like to say that I'am a traditionalist in the way I approach this subject. I believe Black men have been villified in almost every form of media. This continues and is wrong.I love and appreciate Black men for the strength and vision that a lot of them have. I also will say that just like my mother used to say "one monkey do'nt stop no show".do'nt blame the world for one person's poor treatment of you. I believe our Black men should be given a chance and we as Black women should keep an open mind towards them and give them a chance. I was married and thing's did'nt work out, but I still keep an open line of communication with my ex and he has liberal visitation rights. I believe this is the right way to raise healthy children, without bias. I'am just one Black women speaking from my experiences. I hope we as a people we can learn to accept each other's views and learn that none of "us" is always right or wrong,and we all have opinions...Life is too short to always be angry.
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 301 Karma: 10
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #6 on Jul 3, 2006, 11:12am »
Lavalady, I hear you when you say that you were responding to Filmzilla’s post, but the things you said still show a bias and a covert influence of Radical Feminism.
You were indicting Black men as a group for crimes against Black women as a group. That in itself, is polarizing.
For example, you can not claim that Black women are more bitter because of the proliferation of rap music, because there are a huge number of Black men who hate rappers. I owned Rap Sheet and shut it down—one of the driving reasons was that I started hating the music and the rappers. But, I also hated the fact that many Black women supported the music—that can not be denied. You say that you haven’t heard men chastise other men for poor behavior, but we’ve been doing it whether you have seen it or not. There are three articles that do so right here on this website. Essence just won't print those kinds of articles--you may want to ask them why.
Again, my point is to counter the blame game, where Black men as a group are blamed for oppressing Black women as a group. Black men will apologize as a group for our entertainment crimes when Black women as a group apologize for their crimes in entertainment against us, including The Color Purple, Waiting to Exhale, Oprah and the plethora of books and articles that have been written about how horrible Black men are. There is enough negativity in the diaspora to blame both sides—the point is that we need to embrace each other with positive, productive discussion, as opposed to blaming each other or comparing oppression sets.
As for Radical Feminism, many people have no idea what it is or what is has done. Many of us have no idea where some of the phrases like "Independent Woman," or "I don’t need a man" came from. But I’ve been studying it, and I understand clearly. That’s why I’m doing the poll. You claim that Radical Feminism stemmed from a reaction to men, but that couldn’t be farther from the mark. It came from a completely different place that had nothing to do with the Black community. That’s why Black men are confused and hurt when we hear some of the things Black women say about us—they are referring to actions of white men, but lumping us into the same bag.
I wasn’t underestimating your intelligence, lavalady. I simply stated that in order to make the erroneous, sweeping judgmental statements that you made, you had to make them without proper understanding. You even admitted that you shouldn’t have said "most" men. And, I know that you don’t understand Radical Feminism, because of the statements you made. That is not necessarily an indictment of your intelligence, but a statement of fact that you are without understanding on this issue.
And, as for common respect, read your first post again--it was extremely disrespectful and I was responding to that.
Finally, you don’t have to represent the ladies—they are representing themselves as individuals—some agree with you and some don’t. Karnita has registered her view and she did it as a woman. When you assume that you have to represent them as a group against men as a group, that is polarizing.
« Last Edit: Jul 3, 2006, 12:59pm by Darryl James »
Darryl James is an award-winning author who is now a filmmaker. He released his first mini-movie, “Crack,” and this year, will release his first full-length documentary. James’ appears in the film “What Black Men Think,” an in-depth view of misrepresentations, myths and stereotypes about Black men. Reach James at djames@theblackgendergap.com
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #7 on Jul 3, 2006, 5:57pm »
So what exactly did I say that was untrue? You use a lot of psychology to try to dissect what is behind what people say, but what exactly do you disagree with?
I get that you don't appreciate women who have bad attitudes. I can understand that. What I'm trying to get you to understand, however, is that there is a reason for the hostility - and some of it is understandable. Does that make it right to dog men out and have a bad attitude? of course not. But what i see is that a lot of men look at things from their own side only. I think it would be helpful for men to try to imagine for a minute what it must be like to be a woman who is stripped of her dignity, in the way that many men prey on women. It would also be good for women to understand what a man goes through when women generalize and make him the butt of so many "jokes".
I'm sorry, Daryl, but what i've noticed - and i've travelled all over - is that there is far more disrespect that women are exposed to than the other way around. I bring this up for one reason only. i think it needs to be acknowledged by both black men and women. it ought to be taboo for a black woman to disrespect a black man and it ought to be taboo for black men to talk about women in the disrespectful ways that we are talked about. but all o got to do is turn on the tv, and there's a half naked black woman in my face and a black man right beside her demanding that she give him "brains".
Joined: Oct 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 301 Karma: 10
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #8 on Jul 3, 2006, 7:58pm »
Well, lavalady, I don’t want to get into a nonproductive back-and-forth thing with you, because I already pointed out some of your wrong-minded statements. For example, you said: "It is the black man's treatment of black women that did a good job of separating" Black men and women.
In short, I disagree with your effort to pin everything on the Black man. I also disagree with your lopsided desire to compare struggles—and then to posit that the Black woman’s struggle is more difficult than the Black man’s struggle and even caused to be more difficult by the Black man.
You keep bringing it back to the poor oppressed Black woman, destroyed at the hands of the oversexed brutal Black man, and that’s just boring and ignorant. The victim role just doesn’t fit the strong Black women who have been the majority of our race for generations, so we should leave the white Feminatzi’s life and past to her. But really, let’s just stop, because you don’t even see what’s wrong with your statements.
Other Black women disagree with you and guess what, even some white feminists realize how you have been duped by their radical counterparts. But that is why propaganda is so powerful. Remember propaganda caused a nation to follow Hitler into mass murder. Propaganda caused a legion of people to drink poison Kool Aid, simply because Jim Jones told them to do it. And no one could convince them that they were wrong.
You keep proving my point because you refuse to see both sides even as you demand that I see the Black woman’s side.
That whole line of thinking is destructive and is the reason why so many of us are at each other’s throats. I’m not interested in it, so I’m going to let you be.
You say I’m using psychology to dissect what is behind people’s statements, but I speak rather plainly. I can not make you understand any deeper than you do—that is beyond my scope and/or interest.
It’s a good thing that you’ve traveled "all over," but that is not research, nor is it a substitute for surveys. It is conjecture pure and simple and I don’t respect it.
Please don’t try to get me to "understand" anything that I don’t agree with. That is insulting and silly. I understand your points, I just don’t agree with them. I’m not trying to convince you, so stop trying to convince me—you don’t have it in you. Stop it, lavalady—WE ARE DONE!!
You believe whatever you believe and for you, it is true. The world is bigger than your view. Let’s be done with it. Really.
Darryl James is an award-winning author who is now a filmmaker. He released his first mini-movie, “Crack,” and this year, will release his first full-length documentary. James’ appears in the film “What Black Men Think,” an in-depth view of misrepresentations, myths and stereotypes about Black men. Reach James at djames@theblackgendergap.com
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #9 on Jul 3, 2006, 9:55pm »
I never generalized "all black men". You are mistaken. That's why I asked you to highlight something that I said that you disagree with. The example you gave was a poor example because in the context of my entire post, it is very clear that I wasn't talking about all men.
But think what you will. You are not a very good listener. I listened to everything you've typed, and you make quite a few good points. You have not listened to what I have said. You label me as a feminist, and then you are ready to move on. I'm a little surprised that you react the way that you do. I thought this was a diologue.
You can certainly make your point without asserting that everything out of my mouth is feminist garbage. I have acknowledged your points, and I believe wholeheartedly what Karnita was saying as well. You see - you can agree with someone's viewpoint and also point out a few additional things. I'm not trying to sabatoge the dialogue - just open it up a little.
As far as the word "understand" is concerned, what is the point in having a dialogue, if you are not trying to understand where the other person is coming from, reach a common ground, learn something, or help the other person see something that maybe they hadn't thought about before? Why would you think I would have a conversation with you if I wasn't trying to learn something or give you a little knowledge? And what is so wrong about that?
I believe that what you're saying is mostly correct, but I believe that you are missing some pieces of the equation.
Re: The Bridge: Why Radical Feminism Is Failing « Reply #10 on Nov 23, 2009, 12:03pm »
Lavalady sounds like a typical black woman. There are no words for their inability to understand what they are saying or doing. They simply react emotionally to everything personally. They have to win or have the last word. They have no ability to compromise on anything. They have usually been hurt or abandoned at an early age and spend the rest of their lives taking it out on black men and mankind. You cannot have a fruitful dialogue and debate with someone that is so self-obsessed. It is pointless and will yield nothing to the greater cause. You just have to let black women continue to suffer until their own pain and agony wakes them up. For most it never will. They will die bitter, angry, frustrated, resentful and alone. It is what they deserve no less for not reaching deeper inside themselves to find the answers to these issues.
Black people, men and women alike, are victims of this white patriarchal society. Black men are not born disrespecting black women. Many societies in Africa are matriarchal. We are taught that by white men, who disrespect themselves and all women with this culture of materialism, instant gratification and lack of spirituality. "It's all about the benjamins. Get rich or die tryin'. I'm trying to stack my paper. I can do bad all by myself." We hear these phrases all the time that worship accumulation of wealth and the self but black people don't even understand what money really signifies. It means nothing to the universe or God. The white man has given it significance for himself and it is an abstraction of purity and perfection which he considers the opposite of blackness, filth and dirt. These are unresolved childhood psychological issues and we have allowed the white man to also make them ours. When we forsook our mother land in African we lost everything that could sustain us and now we are sinking and drowning right along with the white man. I thought we had already learned not to take boat rides with the white man.
All I can say at this point given the current situation in America is to get a passport or make sure you renew it if it's expired. If you cannot help save everyone then save your family. If you cannot save your family then save your friends. If you cannot save your friends then save yourself. Peace.
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